Dedicated Linux Distro

[gämmö]

INA;
http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthrea ... st25144738

CVROY

I realized this morning that we are running into a big problem here, the windows server has a crap load of errors and until that is stable we will not see a dedicated Linux version for some time. Unfortunately for EPIC most of the game server companies use Linux for their dedicated servers.

At the time of this post here are the player server stats for the UT games:

Unreal Tournament 2004
1648 servers, 4392 players

Unreal Tournament (99)
1829 servers, 1012 players

Unreal Tournament 3 (PC)
523 servers, 333 players


This is not looking good folks.

Jeff Morris;

Hi all. We're working on getting the linux dedicated server released as soon as possible.

He then closed the thread down and once again were left up in the air. Anytime a hard question shows up on the Epic forums they either delete the threath or close it.

The above also shows what I've been saying all along, this game is dead in the water and only one party is responsible for this mess, that would be Mark Rein & Epic Games.

So since there is no official word, no updates and now no place to ask questions about it, kAoS is left without a Ut3 server.

Until such time, that the Epic Gods decide that Microsoft has had enought of a headstart with it's server distro and bless us with the Linux Distro, we can do nothing but wait.


& please do not sugget we jump hosting ship and go for a piece of shit Windows server! Because that would not only be utterly stupid but a waste of time and money.

Ps: the Windows Distro is so fucking bugged out, so unstable that Epic have already released a Beta Patch 2 for it, then they had to recall that 2nd patch, because it was completely flawed, BECAUSE the Windows Distro is a piece of crap.  Now if any of you want to pump money into that, you want to buy into this scam, go for it..... just don't even look my way for help....


Here's a quick example of just how fucked up the Windows Distro is;

The redirect script does not even accept 'UseCompression', it does not currently work!!!!  That means that for any custom content, you can no longer redirect to a compressed version of the file, you have to d/l the FULL uncompressed custom file!!!!!!   OMFG!  <<--That is the DEATH of custom content!!!!!  wtf r these arseholes fucking doing!?  Why does this have to be fixed in a patch, when it should be a default feature, because afterall, the modders/mappers/etc... keep these games alive years after the glitz wers off.....

[gämmö]

I'm not the only one, feeling the pinch... here's a few excerpts from the official Epic Admin Mailing List;

May I remind you that you told us 4 weeks ago that it will be out that
very weekend 4 weeks ago?

Could you be a bit more specific, or is this a big secret like all the
other thinks like anti cheat, the 3 missing necris vehicle, in game
lobbies, game physics, another UI, and all the other promised things we
havent seen?

Did you get the message that a real big crowd is heavily disappointed of
this release?

Thomas

Here's one from our vey own CyberSports crew:

Can we have an official response on the status of the linux server?  I would
like to be able to tell people whether I will be supporting this game or
not.  People don't seem to believe me there isn't one yet as there was a
demo/beta version.

Thanks
Bruce

And here's the atypical Epic Response, to close down the General Mailing list and open up an even moe secrivetly and selective one, were only the 'approved' admins can participate and spoon each other....

       Hi all. We'll make the list private for the time being.

       Let me know about any serious admins who would like to join. Thanks!

Jeff

Fuck me.... lolol  this is pure Kafka....

[kAoS-Wakko]

Spewin.

Don't bother with a server until they have linux.

[larz]

Hahaha I'm subscribed to the server mailing list and read that post the other day too. Had a chuckle over the EPIC guy's response till I realised that they are effectively giving the middle finger to their customers i.e. us.

I mean, everything about EPIC and UT3 (not to mention Gears of War for the PC if anyone got that) has been EPIC flipping the birdie to the customer.

We got an alpha quality game, broken in more ways than Quake 4, and by the looks of it, dying just as fast if not faster.

They're deleting, locking and banning customers on their forums with legitimate complaints with no concrete sense of future direction for their games. Linux server stuck in legal? More like they are so far behind on making the server (Windows and Linux) even remotely comparable functionality wise to UT2K4 that they need a smokescreen.

Are we now seeing PC gamers returning the "birdie" to EPIC? Who knows, but the server numbers look pretty dismal right now.

I've been testing a beta 1 server using Ubuntu and virtualising it with VMWare Server 2.0 beta. So far it seems to run OK but I've only had 4 people on it. Admittedly having to virtualise XP on Linux is not ideal but right now it works and it's the closest thing to a true Linux server. I'm just right now trying to get multiple instances running on the one box. Think I'm gonna give up for the time being and see if player numbers actually pick up - otherwise it might just be a waste of time...

[gämmö]

Well, I thought the Linux Distro would came out at the same time as the Official Patch, as Epic stated.

It's not out yet and I can't find anything anywere in relation to it's eta.

[gämmö]

Original Threath;
http://www.prounreal.com/?t=73341&f=180

prounreal News
[align=center] Unix UT3 Dedicated Server and why it's Important. [/align]

It is a surprise that UT3 was shipped with the lack of a decent dedicated server... an even larger surprise is that there may very well not be a Unix dedicated server released anytime soon due to legal issues. I did a bunch of research and made a few phone calls and I'll cover those legal issues, who's involved and why you simply won't believe who is to blame for holding up the Unix dedicated server process further in this post.

First I must point out the importance for having a unix dedicated server for any online game.

Most hosting facilities with any decent networking connectivity and good clean bandwidth availability host on Unix based platforms. These platforms can include all the Linux based distros (RedHat, CentOS, Slack, Debian, Ubuntu, etc), FreeBSD, Sun, and NCSA variants such as tinyHTTPD. Collectively these Unix based servers outnumber online Windows based servers almost 2:1. Why? Simple! The majority of these unix based operating systems are widely available for free or at little cost with the exception of RedHat Enterprise and Sun. Windows servers for rent to the masses are generally avoided in large hosting houses due to expensive licensing issues and expensive hardware needed to facilitate hosting large numbers of users on the same machine to offset increased licensing and hardware costs.

Combining licensing and expensive hardware makes the costs of having a Windows based online gaming server for individuals ridiculously priced. Higher per slot prices means fewer servers, which leads to fewer online players, which leads to less presence, which leads to dwindling communities, which leads to..... well you get my point.

Netcraft, one of the most widely recognized online demographics collectors, releases the results of their Web Server presence surveys yearly. In their graphs below you can clearly see the dominant online presence of Apache, the defacto standard web-server of the Unix variants versus Microsoft's Internet Information Server(IIS):

http://www.prounreal.com/forums/images/overallc.gif

http://www.prounreal.com/forums/images/overalld.gif

**NOTE:** I chose to use the 2005 results over the 2006 results. Why? Godaddy, one of the largest domain registrars, moved their 2.3 million "parked" domains from a Unix server farm to Windows based servers in late 2006. We all know how many domains simply get taken and parked with a generic "Welcome!" front page, therefore trying to use 2006's server numbers is skewed and cannot be used in this context.

Now that we know why having a Unix dedicated server is important to online gaming, why won't there be a Unix dedicated server for UT3 anytime soon? As I first began to research this I was almost positive that PhsyX might be the legal holdup. I was quite sure that there were most likely some licensing issues with their proprietary software and drivers and how it differed from the mostly "Open Source" world of Unix. I made some phone calls, beat some bushes and asked some important questions. There isn't anything critical to the server that would require PhysX. Besides, PhysX is all client side anyhow. Dead End here. I decided to look at graphics. Nvidia? Nope, no graphics necessary for dedicated servers - all client side again. After eliminating most everything I could think of I had one item left....... Networking.

Networking must be it? I made a few phone calls. I asked some very specific questions. It turns out that Gamespy, along with Epic, has introduced some proprietary software specifically for the introduction of the upcoming console ports for UT3. It is true that Gamespy handles many different networking trackers. It is also true that Gamespy has its own proprietary licensed libraries for collecting and handling these, which means that the game has to include some form of client-side GameSpy software in it. I asked what this had to do with the dedicated server if the issue in question was the client-side software? My source would not elaborate but told me that I was looking 'in the right direction'.

What a shame....

Perhaps Epic's new Strategic partnership with GameSpy that was announced last summer should be reconsidered. While we'll never know all the finite details behind this mess I certainly hope that Epic has weighed the good with the bad in regards to how important inexpensive online servers are for the PC gamers. Shutting out the ability to have decent low cost quality online servers will have a detrimental impact on UT3's PC online future and is extremely aggravating as a hosting provider.

Knowing that GameSpy is the chuckhole in the road to a unix dedicated server at this point aggravates me even more.

Here are the comments posted about the above article:

Comments

#1 - Unix UT3 Dedicated Server and why it's Important. - Posted By: Freeseus on 12/06/2007 10:48AM EST
Good post

#2 - Unix UT3 Dedicated Server and why it's Important. - Posted By: dura1198 on 12/06/2007 3:04PM EST
What a goat screw this has been. I thought for sure it was the PhsyX folks. Great info, thanks!!

#3 - Unix UT3 Dedicated Server and why it's Important. - Posted By: haplo on 12/06/2007 4:35PM EST
Very informative article, thanks.

#4 - Unix UT3 Dedicated Server and why it's Important. - Posted By: Panic on 12/06/2007 6:03PM EST
Gamespy has been the root of quite a few problems with ut3 and I still can't figure out what the hell made them use it for the game. It really can't be that expensive to run a master server and I'm pretty sure they could have achieved cross-platform play without gamespy.

So the next logical question is what the hell was epic thinking when they signed a contract with IGN to use gamespy.

This makes me sad because I was waiting on the linux installer to be released so in hopes that I would get less crashing in linux due to the fact that I have more free memory in linux.

#5 - Unix UT3 Dedicated Server and why it's Important. - Posted By: ArPharazon on 12/06/2007 8:15PM EST
Hmm - the article idea is good, but its argument is quite weak - imho.

UNIX OS's and the Apache webserver are popular because they are free (and also technically superior to windows ofc!) but in no way are they "important" to online gaming solely for their price.

The webserver statistics are certainly interesting - but irrelevant in the context of online gaming, therefore it does not help justify your article.

I think it would have been much more interesting to see a list of game server providers and their rental prices for dedicated servers on each OS (e.g. cost of UT2004 dedi server on UNIX vs Windows). If you could demonstrate a significant cost difference that way then it would certainly help a lot.

However - I'm willing to bet that there is very little difference in price for a dedicated server regardless of the underlying OS.

As for the GameSpy theory - very interesting, but I think thats false since GameSpy has been in the business for quite a while and would certainly be aware of any legal issues regarding their proprietary software on UNIX or consoles. Its got to be something else because GameSpy would not want to risk getting removed by EPIC (and they'd probably do it too).

I doubt that we will ever find out the truth tho :/

#6 - Unix UT3 Dedicated Server and why it's Important. - Posted By: Met` on 12/06/2007 8:35PM EST
Detective bman rises again.

#7 - Unix UT3 Dedicated Server and why it's Important. - Posted By: Cuzkey on 12/06/2007 9:40PM EST
i don't think they are working on a "unix" dedicated server...but a linux dedicated server...saying unix is like saying it'll run on BSD or Mac.

#8 - Unix UT3 Dedicated Server and why it's Important. - Posted By: bman on 12/06/2007 9:57PM EST
quote:
Originally posted by ArPharazon
Hmm - the article idea is good, but its argument is quite weak - imho.

UNIX OS's and the Apache webserver are popular because they are free (and also technically superior to windows ofc!) but in no way are they "important" to online gaming solely for their price.
I've been in the mainstream hosting business since 1994. I can tell you first hand that you only need 1/2 the hardware to host the same number of 'per-slot' servers on a unix platform compared to the same hardware on a Windows machine. Likewise, given the exact hardware as a high-end windows machine, most any unix platform can handle twice as many per-slot servers. Not to mention 99% of the software for the OS is free... Last I looked even XP is still $129.00.

If you came to me and told me that you wanted to setup a UT3 server and to price you out a dedicated server to handle 6 concurrent games each capable of 24 players. I would give you 2 numbers, one for Windows, one for a unix based system for 1/2 the price. Are you going to take the 2x higher priced server? I think not.
quote:
Originally posted by ArPharazon
The webserver statistics are certainly interesting - but irrelevant in the context of online gaming, therefore it does not help justify your article.
That also coorelates to how many unix servers are already in existence. I know many people who have a few websites on their web server and would like to host a dedi UT3 game on the same box. Besides.. people will not play on listen servers very often, especially if there are good solid dedicated machines on decent unencumbered networks.
quote:
Originally posted by ArPharazon
I think it would have been much more interesting to see a list of game server providers and their rental prices for dedicated servers on each OS (e.g. cost of UT2004 dedi server on UNIX vs Windows). If you could demonstrate a significant cost difference that way then it would certainly help a lot.

However - I'm willing to bet that there is very little difference in price for a dedicated server regardless of the underlying OS.
Well, honestly the 'per-slot' hosting market is all over the place in pricing. Those who do well are those who figure out how to reduce their per-machine costs. The assumption that their pricing would be cheaper simply because their costs are less expensive is preposterous considering our capitalistic society.
quote:
Originally posted by ArPharazon
As for the GameSpy theory - very interesting, but I think thats false since GameSpy has been in the business for quite a while and would certainly be aware of any legal issues regarding their proprietary software on UNIX or consoles. Its got to be something else because GameSpy would not want to risk getting removed by EPIC (and they'd probably do it too).
I understand your thinking.. mine was the same however my source is well trusted and very high in the ladder

#9 - Unix UT3 Dedicated Server and why it's Important. - Posted By: bman on 12/06/2007 10:05PM EST
quote:
Originally posted by Cuzkey
i don't think they are working on a "unix" dedicated server...but a linux dedicated server...saying unix is like saying it'll run on BSD or Mac.
Most all Unix OS's have the ability to run Linux binaries. The only reason they did a Linux port to begin with was to keep the Linux desktop users happy. MAC OSX = BSD  

#10 - Unix UT3 Dedicated Server and why it's Important. - Posted By: Cuzkey on 12/06/2007 10:52PM EST
i know Mac is based off of BSD...which is based off of unix...so umm, who in their right mind would use Unix and not Linux anymore?

#11 - Unix UT3 Dedicated Server and why it's Important. - Posted By: Cuzkey on 12/06/2007 11:10PM EST
...if you're sayin that i should be able to install ut2k4 (for example)on OpenBSD, Solaris, and MacOSx because they are all based off of unix and they have the ability to run linux binaries, right? i'm kind of thinking it's not gonna work...i dunno...never really tried, but if that would work then yeah, awesome.

#12 - Unix UT3 Dedicated Server and why it's Important. - Posted By: leviathan on 12/07/2007 1:53PM EST
makes me wonder if microsoft had something to do with this too.

good post bman

#13 - Unix UT3 Dedicated Server and why it's Important. - Posted By: exsniper on 12/09/2007 2:37AM EST
interestin post bman. thanks for sharing the information.

________________________

No comment from me.

[larz]

Just read your post on the "official forums" (utforums.EPICFAILS.com) regarding the lack of linux support. Forum is here: http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthrea ... 878&page=3

Probably not for long tho...

Anyway, totally agree with what you wrote.

[gämmö]

Here's another reason;

UT3 PC Sells 33,995 in US in November  [ 3 Comments  ]
Thursday, 13 December, 2007 at 18:20 PST | RaptoR | Print News
According to today's NPD sales data that's being splashed around the web Unreal Tournament 3 on the PC shifted 33,995 copies in the United States in November. The game was released on November 19th, so that represents just under two weeks of sales.

It's worth noting that NPD's data is only an estimate based on a sample of US retailers and doesn't count online sales.

The top-selling games in the US in November were:
1 Call of Duty 4 (Xbox 360) - 1,565,404 copies
2 Super Mario Galaxy (Wii) - 1,123,070 copies
3 Assassin's Creed (Xbox 360) - 980,000 copies
4 Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (PS2) - 967,000 copies
5 Wii Play (Wii) - 564,000 copies
6 Mass Effect (Xbox 360) - 472,793 copies
7 Call of Duty 4 (PS3) - 444,000 copies
8 Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (Wii) - 426,000 copies
9 Halo 3 (Xbox 360) - 387,000 copies
10 Assassin's Creed (PS3) - 376,843 copies
11 Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Wii) 328,314 copies
12 Rock Band (Xbox 360) 311,903 copies
13 Crysis (PC) 86,633 copies
14 Unreal Tournament 3 (PC) 33,995 copies
15 Manhunt 2 (Wii) 18,494 copies

Total Tracked Software Units 4,317,390 3,483,300
Total Software Sales $1.3 billion

No PC games in the top ten then.

The state of the industry at the moment is such that console games invariably sell a hell of a lot more copies than PC titles, so PC game numbers will reflect that. Nevertheless, having big PC titles like UT3 and Crysis outsold by Sonic and Mario at the F*cking Olympics (328,314 copies) is a little hard to swallow. Should be interesting to see how PS3 UT compares in its first month, being as it is the crown jewel in Sony's festive line-up.

http://www.thesimexchange.com/blogpost.php?post_id=455
___________________

If PS3 sales outstrip the Ut3 PC sales. Were dead.

[kAoS-Druzilla]

Notice no PC games in the top 10!

[kAoS-Rage]

hmm so many ut3 copys sold and the is not that many people online.

[kAoS-Hender]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zgfh7kc27M8

posted by gammo! watch it all teh way (yes he is on drugs but there is a hidden meaning)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 ::haha::  ::haha::

[kAoS-Wakko]

That some funny shit!    ::haha::

[kAoS-Rage]

haha i like it  ::haha::

[gämmö]

You peps spin me da fuck out... seriously.. I posted this last night  on these forums... not one of you saw it... ffs..

http://www.kaoshq.com/_pnp/modules.php? ... 348b#26695

I give up...


Anyway the reviews for the Ps3 release are coming in and thier HIGHER then the PC version reviews!!

Expectations are that it will sell like motherfucking hotcakes in the US for the Consoles, so much so that it will make the PC sales absolutely useless.

Were boned.

Soz that's not my conclusion... that's seems to be the general concensous around... that's why there's no Linux Distro, cause to run as a server on the Ps3, all you need is another Ps3 to run as a server and anyone can log into it.

You don't need need windows either.

This is the furute allright, consoles. Interesting what's going to happen in the next two months.